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 Post subject: No Fault 6000 Heater Tripping GFCI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:39 pm
Posts: 1
I have a 2000 Hot Spring Prodigy Model H which is just out of warranty and the GFCI is tripping. When I unplug the No Fault 6000 heater from the spa circuit board, the GFCI does not trip at all. If I plug the heater back up to the circuit board, while the jets are running, it does not trip the GFCI and it heats up to my set temp as long as I keep the main jet pump running. The circulation pump is running fine yet the GFCI only trips when the jets are off, and the circulation pump is running (unless I have the heater unplugged). I have replaced the filters to ensure maximum circulation. I have tried resetting the heater. My local Hot Springs dealer charges a heafty service fee for looking at my spa and there parts are often priced twice what I can buy them for elsewhere, so I'd like to fix it myself. Please Help! Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:50 am
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Location: SW Florida
The spa is 110v, 20 amp?

If so, the heater is not energized while the jets are on, so your description makes perfect sense....

If it's 220v (two breakers, a 110v 20 amp GFCI breaker, and a 220v 30amp GFCI breaker), and it only trips the 30 amp GFCI breaker, and NOT the 20 amp breaker, it's still the heater... but if it's tripping the 20 amp GFCI breaker, and NOT the 30 amp breaker, look elsewhere.....(possibly a moist circulation pump motor, or moist light housing)...

But anyway, the "No-Fault 6000" has been replaced by the "Tri-Loop" heater, reatails for around $220 or 230, if memory serves correct. Good luck on finding anything from Hot-Springs "cheaper" anywhere else. For parts that are propietary to HSS, the dealer is by far the least expensive, most reliable option....



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:51 pm
Posts: 242
Location: Tucson, AZ
We have a generic replacement for the Watkins, Hot Springs No-Fault heater if you are not able to get one. Ours is not the Watkins No-Fault or "Tri-Loop" heater which both failed at a high rate.



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Jeff

Servicing spas and hot-tubs can be DANGEROUS! If you do not know what you are doing, then please, do not attempt to use the information contained in this message, call a Spa Service Company to service your spa!
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:50 am
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Location: SW Florida
jeffz wrote:
We have a generic replacement for the Watkins, Hot Springs No-Fault heater if you are not able to get one. Ours is not the Watkins No-Fault or "Tri-Loop" heater which both failed at a high rate.


Jeff, the original no-fault 6000 has performed fantasic, and has a 9 year track record to back it up. The replacement, the tri-loop, isn't proving as reliable, in my experience, as the original , no-fault 6000. However, when compared to other brands and styles, the tri-loop is as good as any. The tri-loop isn't bad, it's just the No-fault 6000 is that good. Both peform extrememly well :)
The new titanium, found only in newer Hot Springs, has performed flawlessly, not a single replacement in over 700 units in my service area :shock:

There was never "recall" (in the traditional sense) on the NF 6000, simply a service memo to install a cover on the endcaps if you were at a service call that didn't already have 'em (only 220v models). Zero effect on performance or reliability, which have been fanstastic.
hope that helps :idea:



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:49 am 
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Location: Tucson, AZ
beg to differ with you, I have had direct contact with a "Hot Springs" dealer and a Distributor and other than the "Original" No-Fault heater that was a cartridge style in a plastic tube, the stainless versions had a higher than normal failure rate when compare to traditional heaters. The Tri-bends started failing as soon as they were released. Could be the design to use a circulation pump was the reason, but that is the way Watkins designed it, and it (the heater) did fail. As for the Recall, I would say it was enough to frighten the normal consumer when they found out that the additional part was a barrier to prevent fires, wouldn't you. Again seems like a design flay, that one being on the heater manufacture. The Stainless No Faults were not immersion style heaters, this is possible where all the problems came from. There is a similar high failure rate heater Cal Spa used, it too was not an derision here, and had a cleaver name denoted it was never going to fail, but it did.



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Jeff

Servicing spas and hot-tubs can be DANGEROUS! If you do not know what you are doing, then please, do not attempt to use the information contained in this message, call a Spa Service Company to service your spa!
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:40 am 
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Location: SW Florida
jeffz wrote:
beg to differ with you, I have had direct contact with a "Hot Springs" dealer and a Distributor and other than the "Original" No-Fault heater that was a cartridge style in a plastic tube, the stainless versions had a higher than normal failure rate when compare to traditional heaters. The Tri-bends started failing as soon as they were released. Could be the design to use a circulation pump was the reason, but that is the way Watkins designed it, and it (the heater) did fail. As for the Recall, I would say it was enough to frighten the normal consumer when they found out that the additional part was a barrier to prevent fires, wouldn't you. Again seems like a design flay, that one being on the heater manufacture. The Stainless No Faults were not immersion style heaters, this is possible where all the problems came from. There is a similar high failure rate heater Cal Spa used, it too was not an derision here, and had a cleaver name denoted it was never going to fail, but it did.


Hey Jeff, you are partially correct, I'm just passing along what I have witnessed... As a Hot Spring service agent in an area that consistantly sells over 700 Hot Spring Spas a year, I'm fortunate enough to have quite database to recognize trends. There were intial problems with Tri-Loops, haven't witnessed an unusual number of failures since the introduction.... As far as Hot Springs releasing end-caps to prevent fires, yes, it can seem quite scary for the customer who is hearing of it for the first time.... until you find out how many actually failed, and how Hot Springs is the only Hot Tub company I'm aware of that even continues to modify parts after they've left the showroom floor. Most companies that we're service agents for simply correct whatever they deem is wrong in a new model, leaving those already out there untouched. I have a certain amount of admiration for Hot Springs, as they release updates and improvements for parts already in the field, many that are out of warranty. Other manufactures that we're service agents don't seem overly concerned about what has already been sold and is in the hands of consumers. Of course, the best solution is never to release something that neeeds to be modified, but it is the real world, after all.

The vast majority of No-fault 6000's (not the cartridge style) have not been replaced, and are performing admirably after 8 1/2 years in the field. This has not been my experience with other popular brands in this area, but that may be due to the competiton.

As far as the moniker "No-Fault" it has dual intenions..... the latter to signify that if it fails, it's "Not Your Fault", ie, no warranty denials due to poor H20 chemistry, as well as an assumption of having "No faults", he he he.

:)



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:24 pm 
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Location: Tucson, AZ
I agree, Watkins does stand behind their product to the original owner at a higher standard, and has higher standards, they are at the top in customer service from reports I have heard and seen. 8)



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Jeff

Servicing spas and hot-tubs can be DANGEROUS! If you do not know what you are doing, then please, do not attempt to use the information contained in this message, call a Spa Service Company to service your spa!
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:00 pm
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Hello. I am having almost the same problem as decribed in the first post. I have a 2000 Hot Springs Grande (220). It has a 6000 No-fault heater. The serial number is: G2A1745. The heater has never been replaced but lately is not heating well. During the last drain/refill, the heater circuit breaker would trip and wouldn't stay on. After a few days I tried it again it came on and began to heat, but very slow. It stay up at temp. until you sit in the hot tub with the cover off, an soon the temp. drops until the cover is replaced. Now it's sitting at about 96 degrees and won't get any higher. Also sometimes the heater circuit breaker trips and it takes a few tries to reset it. Can this be replaced by the end-user? I'm comfortable around plumbing and electric, I just wondered if the tub need to be drained. Also Lately I've been having to replace the item number: 72721 - Kit, Flow Restrictor assy. About every 6 to 8 months the circulation pump stops bubbling until it is replaced. Intially it did not to be replaced for years. Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:26 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:01 am
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Location: Kansas City
I read the first post by atstep and I seem to have the same problem. He or she never posted a reply on wether the heater fixed the problem. I have a 1998 Hot Springs Bengal (110v) and I think I have the same problem atstep had. If I pull the plug on the heater, the power will stay on. Otherwise with it plugged in, it trips the breaker. I talked to a service guy from a Hot Springs Dealer and he told me to check the Resistance on the heater and it was 9.6 ohms which is close to what he said it should be. The heater is quite expensive and I'm just trying to make sure that it is going to fix my problem. By the way, I also changed my house GFCI breaker to a standard 20amp breaker and then it would trip the built-in breaker on the power cord of my Bengal. Any help would be appreciated


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