The profits on Baqua Spa must be obscene. The sheer volume of shaft-seal leaks and unsatisfied customers is staggering in my service area.

I feel if the dealers actually saw the results of this stuff in the field every day, they wouldn't sell it. For every satisfied customer, I come accross 9 others that are utterly hopeless.

Upon further review, that's a conservative estimate.

Are you trying to tell me something? Seriously, lighten up! (and I think I did ask about ozone being incompatible with Baqua Spa, just not as specifically as you) My situation is that I can not tolerate a bromine or dichlor system. I get a very uncomfortable rash. I've tried many different combinations and Baqua Spa is the only thing that doesn't give me a rash. I'm curious when I hear about another non-chlorine/bromine system. I don't like to pay the $$$ for Baqua Spa, but I really don't want to have a spa that I can't use. FYI - My ozonator is disconnected. I'm open to other suggestions.

Hi NC-Spa,
Forgive me if I seemed harsh. I certainly didn't mean to come off as an attack on you. (however upon a re-read it did!) I was venting my frustration with the Biguinide systems. I have no vested interest in either Biguinide, Silver Trace, Enzyme, or traditional Hallogens. I am just the guy in the field defending repeat repairs, and the integrity of the manufacturer of the spa.

I will now defend my position.
I own two spa/ pool stores. We sell a few hundred spas per year. We have a few thousand pool chemical customers in season who patronize our stores. We are a FULL service spa dealer selling, delivering, and servicing Watkins products, HotSpring, Tiger River, etc. Our spa manufacturer has worked hard to address the components susceptible to the affects of most sanitizing systems. This is just one of the many reasons we've stayed with them for more than 24 years. Many other manufacturers haven't and probably never will.
It's easy for those who are in JUST the service sector to banter the retailer. I invite you to open a store, and experience the real thrill of the overhead, staffing and expense of it all.
We like to offer people choices in caring for their spa. Nearly 5-10% of spa owners find they cannot tolerate halogen sanitizers(chlorine/ bromine). Why not offer them an alternative.
Saying baquinide systems are evil is not fair. Here's an example I ran into today. We took a water sample from a spa we delivered a new cover to about 40 miles from our store. Upon testing back at the store, Alk-10, pH-6.1, Free Clhorine-0.5, total chlorine- 1.5, Calcium-15. We then called them with the balancing instructions. It's simple, most people do not keep the spa balanced the way it could be.

(AS A SIDE NOTE, EACH AND EVERY VISIT WE MAKE TO A SPA WHETHER FOR A REPAIR, DELIVERY OF NEW COVER, ETC, WE TAKE A WATER SAMPLE. THAT SAMPLE IS TESTED BEFORE THE END OF THE DAY ON AN ALEX STRIP READER BY BIOGUARD AND THE HOMEOWNER IS CALLED WITH THE RECIPE TO BALANCE IT.) How many JUST service guys do that. Who cares more about the client's spa water?

We are not the retailer looking to make a fast buck. We're looking to make a fair living, charge a fair price and endure in a industry in which we're very passionate.

I'd be more than happy to discuss this further with anyone. Maybe in a different thread.

Hi hottub.poolboy,
I have once again stepped on toes, and apologize. I had a customer today with a damaged Aqua-Flo pump seal. The water damage ruined her carpet, and baseboard. She had re-filled the spa so I could determine the leak, I would have tested her water, but it was chemical-free. I drained her spa,(no gate valves) "R&R'd" her seal. This spa is 5 months old. She asked what would cause her 5 month old spa to fail "So Soon". All I could do was hand her her copy, as the unit was under complete warranty. In the past,I walked a fine line trying not to "Banter" the retailer. In the past, I struggled to offer a solution to a non fix. Now, I hear the ringing of one of the salesperson's wisdom filled words..(Why are you complaining? It's Job Security). Now....
I've become the cold non caring "Just" service personell you refered to who cares less about their customers. Your right, I have no overhead, no staffing, no expenses. I'm through banging my head against the wall over this issue.
"Let-em' Call The Store"

InHot,
there's my point, the woman was going to refill her spa. Perfect time to test the water for her and tell what she needs to balance the spa. Does she have a taylor test kit or balance the spa from test strips? Does she take the water to a professional retailer to have it analyzed and balance?
What's chemical-free water? You mean it's pH right out-of-the tap may not be in the dumper. What if it's 5.1 or less? Her pump seal wouldn/t last much longer than a few months.

Her problem is buying a spa and not getting a professional orientation by a spa dealer who gives a hoot. It's her water chemistry that's the culprit, not her sanitizing system.

Hi hottub.pool_boy,
I'm truly not looking for an adversary in this group. You and I are surviving off of this industry. I respect you immensely. Your websight is very nice, and I respect your stature. I need information from this group. The Biguinide situation is clearly touchy. I will post in Fourth, and Forty with questions to further my education. Thank you all.

Inhot,
Appreciate that.

Pezley69,

I would refer to your manufactures owners manual and warranty information to see if your spa is compatible with biguanides. Some of the plastics on older spa were not biguanide compatible. 24 hr Circulating pumps have problems keeping the chemical solution soluble so if you have one of these you may want to consider something else. Not really compatible with ozone.

I believe that all chemical systems have their draw backs. Some just take longer to show up then others. Also given that most spa's don't get the chemistry attention they really need most the time on an average. We live in a busy world and things happen. I would agree that biguanides systems presents more of a challenge to a user and the device it's put into. I consider it not user friendly Out of all the spas I've serviced using biguanides. I have also experienced plenty of unsatisfied customers. Most problems being....... multiple seals leaks, scaled heathers. binding spinning jets, clogged filters, cloudy water, seized circulating pumps, cracked light lenses, massive foam and scum rings, discolored plastic parts. seized valves ect ect ect.. This is not my opinion but my experience ! Some people are fine with using it and others use for alternative reasons and that's ok with me too.. You really just need to find a balance of what works best for you. You can try a non chlorine sanitizer if you don't like it you can still switch to something else.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to use.


Question about hot springs spas ?

Does Watkins consider biguanides to be an alternative sanitizer and exclude it's use in their products via their written warranty ?

Being that most their spas come with a cd ozone isn't really built to be compatible with bromine ?

Does hot springs normally eat the cost of defective parts caused by any chemical damage within the first year of ownership or does the retailer pick up the tab on the goodwill repair? Who pays for the damaged parts?

Watkins and Baqua are in bed together. Watkins has a $1,000 option that includes a sophisticated Baqua Spa dispensing system. I have yet to see one work effectively in the field, though I've only seen about a dozen or so in the field. (Unless you include cloudy water as working effectivley)